"And you don’t like being on television with brown people"
Labour peer Thangam Debbonaire clashed with Reform UK’s Sarah Pochin during a heated interview.
The row unfolded during a Sky News interview that covered several issues, including questions surrounding Reform UK leader Nigel Farage’s £5 million personal gift from Thailand-based crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne.
The gift is being investigated by the parliamentary standards commissioner. The inquiry will examine whether it should have been declared under parliamentary rules.
Pochin defended Farage during the broadcast.
She said: “In terms of the £5m, Nigel received that as a gift before he was in politics, so he doesn’t need to declare it.
“What I will say is that Nigel has had his security taken away by the Labour government, which is spiteful. He’s a politician and he’s a target and now he has to pay for his own security.”
Debbonaire repeatedly attempted to interject before saying: “He doesn’t. Parliament provides security as you very well know.
“You have been interrupting me all night, Sarah, and now you’re just talking rubbish.”
Farage has given different explanations about why he received the £5 million gift.
He initially said it would fund his lifetime personal security. He later described it as a reward from Harborne for campaigning for Brexit.
Parliamentary rules require MPs to declare certain benefits received during the 12 months before entering Parliament. Whether a benefit must be declared depends on whether it was for political or personal purposes.
The rules state: “If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.”
The discussion became increasingly confrontational after Pochin appeared to reference Debbonaire losing her Bristol West seat to the Green Party at the 2024 general election.
Debbonaire said: “And you don’t like being on television with brown people, do you, Sarah? You’ve said that already.”
Pochin responded: “That’s outrageous”.
Debbonaire continued: “Do you want me to find the quote of you saying you don’t like seeing brown people on TV?
“Do you want me to find it for you, or was that not you? Was that some other Sarah Pochin?”
She appeared to reference comments Pochin made on TalkTV in October 2025.
During that appearance, Pochin said: “It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people.”
Responding to a viewer discussing television advertising, Pochin added: “It doesn’t reflect our society”, and “your average white person, average white family is … not represented any more”.
The two politicians also clashed over a video Pochin posted on X linking England football victories with reductions in domestic violence.
Critics argued the video failed to directly condemn perpetrators and instead suggested England’s results influenced abuse levels.
Pochin defended the post on Sky News, saying she was highlighting research linking football defeats with increased incidents of domestic violence.
Debbonaire challenged her position, accusing the Reform MP of failing to stand up for women.
She said: “Are you really only saying the only danger to women is people who come from other countries?
“You keep smiling when we are talking about violence against women and girls.”
As the interview continued, Debbonaire appeared visibly frustrated. At times she walked away from the camera, held her head in her hands and said:
“Just let her talk, there’s no point… Oh my God.”
Speaking to the Guardian on June 19, Debbonaire said she stood by her remarks and entered the interview intending to challenge Pochin’s views.
She said: “I am prepared to call out anybody who is espousing dangerous and prejudicial beliefs because brown people are frightened.
“Last week there was effectively a pogrom in the United Kingdom in which people were burned out of their homes because of the colour of their skin.
“I will stand up to anyone who stirs up hate and says things that are either discriminatory or untrue that enable other people to go out and be violent.”
Debbonaire also argued that more politicians should be willing to challenge Reform UK publicly.
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